Eli Vered Hazan is the Likud party’s international director, who visited Budapest last week following an invitation by Action and Protection League, that was partly triggered by the recent protests in Israel against the Netanyahu-led government’s planned judicial reform. Leader of the opposition, Yair Lapid harshly criticized the newly formed government for the planned judicial reforms warning the Israeli public, that the change will „Hungarianize” Israel, by changing the balance of the different branches of power.
Lapid’s comments did not go unnoticed. Balázs Orbán, the Hungarian prime minister, Viktor Orbán’s political director (only namesake) was interviewed by Israel Hayom and took time to write an extensive op-ed in Makor Rishon, explaining to the Israeli public, how Hungary is being viciously attacked by the left, yet its policies comply with every democratic value and even result in economic growth and political stability.
Neokohn had a chance to sit down with Mr. Hazan to learn more about what is happening in Israel, and to understand the government’s insistence on the planned reforms.
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We can see two problems in Israel currently, that need to be addressed, two recent developments. I would like to understand if you see any connection between the two, and how your government will handle each of those situations? First and foremost are the recent terrorist attacks.
Every terrorist attack is sad, need to be condemned and fought against. However, I must sadly say, that there are many more attacks that are caught by the Shin Bet (the internal security service – the editor) and we don’t know about. In these instances, the attacks could not be prevented unfortunately. Our hearts and prayers go out to the families of the victims. Nevertheless, we also need to fight the root cause, that is the incitement inside the Palestinian media and the Palestinian education system.
Like the textbooks that are funded partially by the European Union.
Precisely.
The second issue is the judicial reforms. Do you see any connection between the two?
One has to understand that the changes have to be done. This is what our voters expect of us. Let me give you an example. I am sure that your readers are aware of the fact, that back 2016, the Supreme Court ruled, that according to International Law, we have to give back bodies of the terrorists. I mean, giving them to the Palestinians. Now, we use these bodies for bargaining to bring our own soldiers’ or citizens’ bodies back.
The Supreme Court tried to prevent this.
This sounds mad.
I give you another example. Many-many times, the Supreme Court prevented us to destroy the terrorists’ houses.
Is destroying effective when preventing terrorism? For an outsider it, at times, seems like a weird solution.
I must say it is very effective. Even Gadi Eisenkot, when he was chief-of-staff (now he is a member in Benny Gantz’s Blue and White party) said it is the best tool to discourage people from terrorism.
Not to mention that the Supreme Court in Israel has unlimited power.
One may think, that the government has an underlying reason for its adamant fight fight for the reforms, namely PM Netanyahu’s ongoing trial.
That is absurd. The reforms, even if they are introduced, would not have an affect on Netanyahu’s trial,
because it had already begun.
The new laws could not be applied retroactively.
Perhaps if the government would have waited a few months after the elections, it would not have caused such uproar.
I do not agree. It is now, or never. Don’t forget, our voters expect us to do this. Think about it: you have a democratic election, but in the end, there are 15 judges to determine your life. How is that democratic?
How about the hundred thousand protesters?
First of all, let me say, that demonstrations are good. In a democracy people have the right to express their view on public affairs. Therefore, we support any demonstration. However, in this particular case, even if we believe those figures, which I don’t, by the way. But let’s suppose they are true. What percentage is that of the close to 10 million citizens? The Likud led government got major support in the elections.
We have a strong mandate to govern and we have to deliver on our election promises. That is more important than the opposition’s hysteria.
The government seems to back out somewhat from its original proposal though.
It is, as everything in politics, a negotiation. We have some room to negotiate but we will not back out from the important points and go through with what we think is vital.
Is your coalition fully behind the proposal.
We have a strong majority, 64 against 56. There are one or two MKs from our coalition, who are hesitant as of now. And that is fine. We still will have a strong majority on this particular issue.
The media many times likes to describe the new government as being the most rightist and religious in Israel ever.
The political memory is only short term. In the early 90s there was a government with majority of rightist parties.
This government may be the most conservative, yes. But not the most rightist.
Israel is becoming more conservative, and there is a clear demographic change as well, namely the religious take up more and more percentage of the society. Are you not afraid, that the distance between the Jewish state and the Jews of the diaspora will widen?
By now everybody realizes, even the most Zionists, that Israel needs the diaspora just as much, as the diaspora needs the State of Israel. However, the growing of the distance is inevitable. American Jewry is undergoing tremendous assimilation. Also, European Jewry. That is the number one threat. You know the best book except for the Bible, that I read is a book by Amos Elon, titled The pity of it all. He wrote it in the early 2000s, when I studied in Vienna. It describes the story of the German Jews between 1743 when Moshe Mendelssohn entered in the gates of Berlin, till 1933 when Hannah Arendt escaped from that country.
It must give one pause to see what happened to German Jews.
But to answer your question.
The relationship between the State of Israel and the diaspora only partially depends on Israel. We have to do our part and expect the other “party” to do the same.
You had a meeting with PM Orbán. What did you speak about?
Mr. Orbán was very generous with his time, we had a great conversation, unfortunately I can’t share with you what we discussed.
Let’s just say, that the ties between our countries have never been stronger.
Can you elaborate on this relationship? What advantages do you see important?
Hungary is clearly one of Israel’s best friends in Europe and in the world. We share common values, face similar challenges, our friendship is stronger than ever. Mr. Orbán is a close friend of Mr. Netanyahu, this friendship goes back a long way and the two leaders both govern with a strong mandate. We hope that we can take this friendship and partnership to even further in all areas, including investments, economic, cultural and defense related issues.
Hungary has a sizable and flourishing Jewish community, that lives in security and peace, thanks to the Hungarian government’s firm stance against any antisemitism.
